“How do you anchor yourself in your day to create starting your day with calm, being able to anchor those things throughout the day as well, and then ending your day so that you have this kind of calm when approached with all the chaos that tends to happen in daily life.” - Jenna Hermans

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Chaos to Calm with Jenna Hermans

Welcome to Imperfection in Progress, a podcast for ambitious women who are people-pleasers, perfectionists, or procrastinators. Want to feel less stress and more joy in your life? Then this is for you. I’m your host Dawn Calvinisti.

As we head into the holiday season I thought it might be a good idea to get some expert advice on how we can navigate the busy-ness in a way that feels good. I know I often overcommit myself and my family and then end up feeling upset and annoyed and that never goes well. Well, on today’s podcast I’d like to introduce you to Jenna Hermans.

Jenna is living proof that you can create a life of calm within chaos and overwhelm. She uses her bachelor’s degree in psychology, master’s degree in organizational management, and over fifteen years of Human Resources experience to build strong teams, both at work and at home. Jenna is the co-founder of Be Courageous, a busy mom of 4, coach and author. As seen in Forbes, The Sun, ELLE, Yahoo, and more, Jenna takes an intentional and inclusive approach to help people (especially parents) implement tools that put organization and systems around their busy lives that infuse calm and more joy, helping them go from 'Chaos to Calm,' which doubles as the title of her debut book that launched in May 2023.

You’ll want to check out all she has to offer at her website jennahermans.com

Here’s my conversation with Jenna.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Dawn Calvinisti: I am really excited to welcome Jenna Hermans here today. It is awesome to have you on the podcast. Thanks for coming.

[00:00:08] Jenna Hermans: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Dawn. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:00:13] Dawn Calvinisti: I would love for you to tell us a little bit about who it is that you are helping out there and what your main message is.

[00:00:20] Jenna Hermans: So the people I help most and those who tend to come to me are busy moms, busy parents overall, but typically it tends to be moms who come to me and what I'm helping them with is finding their calm and being able to bring that with them into the various moments of their lives, right? How do you anchor yourself in your day to create starting your day with calm, being able to anchor those things throughout the day as well, and then ending your day so that you have this kind of fare through of calm when approached with all the chaos that tends to happen in daily life.

[00:01:02] Dawn Calvinisti: I love this, and if you're listening to this podcast when it's actually released, we're in the last quarter of 2023, and I just find that as the year is, I mean, it doesn't matter what, what year we're in as the year ends everything seems to ramp up and people get more intense and more rushed and more trying to fit all the things in as if when the year ends, they have no time to ever do it again, right?

Like there's not a whole other year out there for you to continue on. So I think this is really appropriate for this time of year to learn to embrace that calm. I know you are an author of a book called Chaos to Calm, so I know this is a big deal, but can you tell us a little bit about why people are looking for this, what your experience is as you're working with people.

What are they wanting when they say calm? What does that mean?

[00:01:52] Jenna Hermans: Really what they're wanting is to feel like they have control over what's going on in their lives, right? That their calendar isn't running them, their family isn't dictating, their boss and you know, their business that they're, 'cause they're feeling so overwhelmed by all of the responsibilities and the pressures that are in the day to day and the week to week, the month to month, right. And so they come to me because they feel they're feeling lost. They're feeling disconnected from what's the big picture here? 'cause I feel like I'm so in the minutia of all these little things, right, of the day. And like I don't have a big picture of what is this all for? Why am I even doing this? And it's like, I know, of course I wanna raise my kids to be good kids and I'm working and my partner's working so that we can provide for our family, but truly feeling kind of like a prisoner to this life instead of feeling like I am choosing this life and that I'm enjoying it as well.

And that I'm not just doing everything for everyone, but that I am important too. And so often the parents I talk to feel so much guilt around that concept, right, of feeling like I should be enjoying my life and making time for me, even if that means saying no to my kids, saying no to my partner, saying no to things at work.

Just saying no, in general. Having boundaries. So that's when people tend to come to me. 'cause they feel like, one, they have no systems in place, they're just living by the seat of their pants. Right? Reacting to everything around versus being intentional about being thoughtful around why they're doing what they're doing.

Or making intentional decisions as well. And feeling like, okay, I know what I'm doing, I'm good inside myself, and I have a, I have a full cup to pour from every day.

[00:03:46] Dawn Calvinisti: So on this podcast, we are really talking to people who are people pleasers and perfectionists and procrastinators. And when you are saying this, I'm thinking here, the people pleasers are trying to do everything for everyone else, right? And it's never focused on themselves and often not even getting that they're allowed to focus on themselves.

And then you have the perfectionist who wanna do it just right and create such incredible stress. And again, that guilt kicks in and that need to really make everything as good as possible, not just for them, but for everybody else as well. And then you have the procrastinators who, because they can't do it perfectly, or because it's an impossibility, sit back and find other things to do and create chaos in their own lives because what actually needs to be done is not happening.

And so frustration builds and so on. So I can see all of this in what you're saying. But what, what do you say when it comes to, and I would love to just go into boundaries a bit, but when it comes to setting boundaries from those places, because as a people pleaser, boundaries usually are non-existent.

And as a perfectionist, sometimes boundaries are so strict and so impossible it's defeatist.

[00:04:57] Jenna Hermans: When I tend to take on a client, right? The one of the first things that we talk about are values. What are the big overarching values that are important to you in this life? Right, and values can shift over time, but they're pretty stagnant for a good chunk of years. Especially when kids are young and you, that's a big focal point right in your life.

And so we go through this process of understanding what are your key values, and then when you have those in place, it makes it so much easier to put up a boundary. To say no, to make clear decisions from a place of conviction because, you know, if this is a, if this is my value, that means I'm making this a priority.

And so if this thing that I'm being asked to do is not in alignment with that, or if I have to sacrifice the thing that is the priority for something that's not, then that's an easy no to say to this, to say yes to that, right? So being able to say like, one of my values is making sure I have a healthy body for what purpose.

So that one I can show up and, and have everything that I need to to give every day, but also longevity wise, I wanna be around for grandkids and great grandkids, whatever the reasons are for making that a value. And then, so if someone says, Hey, do you wanna go to um, Wine festival and go drinking all day?

Or would you rather go for a long hike as a, you know, a friend who's saying we can do this or that, and it's like, well, I'm probably gonna say let's go for a hike so that I can move my body so that we can still connect versus let's put, you know, lots of wine in the body and then I'm probably not gonna feel good the next day.

Especially at my age now where wine and I don't, don't fit so well together anymore.

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[00:06:45] Dawn Calvinisti: That's a really good point that if it's based on values, it's much easier to say it to, to put that boundary, to say no. At this time of year, as we're going into the very end of the year, what do you suggest when it comes to those extra things that sometimes we feel obligated to? So for example, I'm just thinking of all the things that come up, but if there's a work party that you need to go to, and then you have the in-laws get together with all the kids, and maybe you're being asked to provide food for this or to bring extra things to the kids' school because they have a concert.

Just all of those extra things and trying to, I guess, sort between what you want to do, what you feel obligated to do, what are traditions maybe that you wanna keep intact for the family, whether it's super important to you or not. How do we make those decisions so that we're not feeling at the end of the week or the month like we are dead on our feet, unable to, to give out to anybody and as a mom, and I'm sure you know this too, it just makes you so short of temper. And it can just be so, I think disappointing at the end of it all, even though you did all the things.

[00:07:58] Jenna Hermans: Yeah, so my question would be is what is this in service of? Right? Why? Why to go to the work party. Why to make the food for the, the class party or for your kids' school? Why to have this tradition? What does it serve and how does it benefit you and the bigger scheme of things, right? Your family, your work, et cetera, and getting clear about that, right?

When knowing, okay, this is gonna benefit me and in, because, you know, it helps me to build rapport with people at work and then with my boss, and that, that helps me for longevity and retention at my, at my job. Great. Right. Knowing that you're doing that, it's an easy decision to say, yes, I'm gonna go to this work thing, but you could also always leave early when you're in those situations.

I think that a lot of times we get in this head space of like, oh, this thing is from five to eight or five to nine and I have to stay here the whole time. We think in very black and white with a lot of these things, especially around the holidays, I either have to go all in or I'm gonna do nothing. And that's the perfectionist, right?

The mindset there when truly there are so many shades of gray of being able to come to the party for a little bit and say hello and then leave. Right. You don't have to stay the whole time. And in terms of making food for your kids' school, okay, for what purpose? Is there actually gonna be enough food there?

Do you have time to do it? Should you just buy something instead of making something for it? Right. And there are ways to be able to, when consciously thinking about the context, of what's being asked of you to say, how does this serve me and my family? And if it doesn't serve to ditch it, if it's not gonna support you in any way, then don't do it.

Or delegate it, right? Give it to someone else. Like I said, buy the cookies or buy the things as opposed to making them, no one's actually gonna care if you make cookies versus buy them. Truly at the end of the day, it's not important. If you made a, if you made a commitment and you follow through in your commitment, but no one cared.

Right. So my offer is to really to ask yourself, what is it that is important? For what purpose am I doing this? And then also, if it's something that doesn't bring you joy, but you know that you should do it for whatever the reason is, and it's gonna be really draining for you, that there are ways to anchor energy before and after, so that when you're there, you're not just fully depleted of everything you've got. Right. Especially as as introverts going into holiday parties and work parties and kids gatherings and shows and whatever, and it takes so much out of the introverted parent to go and be a part of all of this. To be proactive to create time before those energy draining experiences, to fill their cup, to go be alone, go read, meditate, just do whatever they need to do in order to make sure that their cup is full, and then after as well to do something that can really bring them back into themselves.

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[00:11:04] Dawn Calvinisti: I love that you touched on this. This is something that's new to me as an introvert. But I have really found a difference when there's something that I do have to go out to, to not be coming from a place of busyness and being around a lot of people and doing a lot of things ahead of time, and then walk into that same state.

So I love that you're saying that. That's such a good tip.

[00:11:25] Jenna Hermans: Thank you. Yeah, and that goes for, I think for any situation that we know that this is so draining for us, and, and you don't even consciously always sometimes know it, right? You just feel it in your body and in your nervous system you're like, Ooh, I don't wanna do that for whatever reason and when that activates right of the thinking of like, oh, I really don't want to, but I know that I have to for whatever reason to do something that lifts you up before and that lifts you up after, right?

So that it's not that, that experience, as painful as it may be, doesn't need to be then bookended painfully as well.

[00:12:04] Dawn Calvinisti: Right, exactly. And often when we do do that, then we set ourselves up for that same feeling. Time and time again because of that. So, that is really, really great advice. I wanted to ask you a little more, you touched on the fact that, you know, people don't have systems in place and so this often, I'm assuming, can lead to that feeling of chaos and totally wipe out calm.

So what, what do you mean when you say systems? What does that look like? Because for me, and maybe for some of the listers, they might be thinking, okay, is that like a tech thing? But we're talking about life here.

[00:12:36] Jenna Hermans: Yeah. So when I say systems in the day-to-day life, it's getting really clear on how do you use your time, right? How do you maximize your time and how do you maximize your energy, right? And so it's around this concept of efficiency that you can, that we build in. The structures and systems. And what that looks like is, let's say you put a load of laundry in at night and you set the delay start for the morning, for early morning so that when you, before you leave for work or before you leave to take your kids to school, you can throw it in the dryer and you've got a load of laundry that's done and you didn't have to think about, oh, in the morning, let me put it in and let me wait for it to dry and, and you know, I have to now put it over, or whatever.

Right? It's this little tiny act that when you get into the routine of it, that it makes life so much easier. So something like that with laundry. Another thing that we do in our household is that we do meal planning and I bring all the kids into it, that we talk about what are the meals we wanna have this week, and then write 'em all down.

Grocery shop against dinner for one day and then every day after the day is done right, after the, the work and the school day is done. When it's time to make dinner, it's not the stress of, oh my God, what do we have and what's going on and what's gonna go bad? And I don't know. And I have to be creative after I've just used my mental faculties and my executive functioning all day to try to be creative and come up with dinner.

Ugh, the worst. So on Sunday, having that meal plan, made out getting all the groceries and knowing what you're gonna have every day just saves so much cortisol from running through your veins every single day. And there are so many other ways to build those kinds of systems, right? There are these little things that you don't necessarily need to have technology, but technology is great too. Like I have a Calendly link and if somebody wants to connect with me, I send them the link and they can find when does that work in for their schedule that also works on my calendar for us to connect. So there, there are so many of these little efficiencies as well as habit create habits that we can intentionally create that build that infrastructure of calm and these various systems that make sure that you are taking care of you and your responsibilities, but in a way that's not driving you crazy and killing your nervous system in the amongst it all.

[00:15:11] Dawn Calvinisti: I'm thinking of my entrepreneurs out there, and again, at this time of year. A lot of people can feel like there's a lot to wind up. There was a goal set maybe at the beginning of the year or for this quarter, and you know, they want to to achieve that. And so there's that push or that extra time being put into that.

And again, it can feel like almost that that ramping up inside, do you know what I mean? Where, where everything just feels tight and tense and you're feeling stressed over it. And I think sometimes those are the hardest times to allow yourself to be calm, to actually acknowledge that it's okay, that you don't need to have to feel that stress in order to actually make any progress.

What is your take on feeling calm and yet still being able to continue to move forward 'cause I'm sure for a lot of people that just does not go together.

[00:16:05] Jenna Hermans: Oh yeah, no, so many of my clients that's, that is such a thing for them, right? They're all very high performer people that are activating and doing so much, and one of the things that I tell them is that it is so important to slow down to speed up. Right? We are not robots and we are not machines, and we need moments of recovery and rest in order to show up to the next thing with more of our abilities, right?

And so the idea of, of taking a nap, even if it's just for seven minutes in the afternoon, and I know for so many that is like the worst possible thing that they could think of, right? But if it's not a nap, it's just taking your eyes away from the screen, getting, you know, into a different physical space, right?

Getting away from the, the mental thinking of work, family, yada, yada, and just taking a few minutes. It doesn't take long, right? To have these moments where you step away from the grind and what you're doing and that push, push, push. When you step away and you clear your mind of all of it, it actually creates the space for when you come back that you have more ability to be a creative problem solver, to think with more creativity, to come up with new ideas that if you were just in your cycle, this whole time, going, going, going, that you wouldn't have had the opportunity to think bigger, to think from a different perspective and bring new thinking to the table. So that is something that I share with a lot of my clients is that when you're in those moments when you're go, go, go, that feels like the worst time to stop and refresh.

But just like our computers and our devices where when they're not working great, they're still working, but there's bugs and things that are, that are going on, and you just need to, you know, turn it off, to turn it back on again and everything's running so much more smoothly and quickly and you're like, oh my God, I forgot that my, you know that there's so much more memory space when things are moving so quickly after I just restarted it.

It's the same for us, right? Taking a five minute walk in the afternoon, taking a brain break from what you're doing allows for you to show up again. Bring that much more so you actually are doing more and creating more in your mind after a break than in, in, let's say an hour than you would've if you hadn't breaked, and it would've taken you like three hours to do the same thing.

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[00:18:38] Dawn Calvinisti: I love that you're saying this. One of the things that I use as a tool is for my people who generally love checklists. Are you a checklist person?

[00:18:46] Jenna Hermans: Oh, yeah. Love it.

[00:18:48] Dawn Calvinisti: Yeah. Yeah. I love checklists. So the, one of the things I I say is on your checklist within the workday, there has to be something that says green space. And so at some point in the workday you have to see green space.

So whether that means you go outside and stand on your balcony and look at things, or you go out for a walk and see something green. But most people say that when they're walking, when they're in, you know, nature, whatever, that their mind becomes very creative and they are thinking all kinds of things.

And so I think what you're saying is so key to be able to just remove yourself to that different space because it does allow your brain to kinda reset and get excited about something and start working on things maybe that were in the back of it and come up with great new ideas. So I love that this is something that you encourage as well.

[00:19:30] Jenna Hermans: Oh yeah, absolutely. And I say another way, if you can't, let's say get into the green, is to connect with, with somebody to get some other stimuli and that from a human being that you enjoy connecting with and talking to them. So it gets your brain just again, away from the, the, that forward momentum of just everything that you've been doing and that productivity cycle that we find ourselves in.

Right. But just to connect outside of that.

[00:20:00] Dawn Calvinisti: So I have a question for you and I ask it to every guest that comes on the show when it comes to the three Ps people pleasing, perfectionism and procrastination, which one do you go to the most?

[00:20:14] Jenna Hermans: Oh, my default is people pleasing. Oof. That has been my default for, since I was a child.

[00:20:21] Dawn Calvinisti: Do you see it come out in your work anywhere?

[00:20:25] Jenna Hermans: You know, I'm a lot better about it than I used to be. It's more in the, my personal life that the people pleasing shows up versus in the professional realm. I have pretty good boundaries around that for in, in my professional life.

[00:20:43] Dawn Calvinisti: I love hearing from everybody that there are still areas that we're working on and we're all imperfect. We're all still a work in progress, and I would love to hear a little more from you on what is it that you are creating right now? What things do you have to offer to us right now?

[00:21:01] Jenna Hermans: Oh, I have so many fun things to share. One is I have these free downloadables on my website. Free resources that can help you build those calm infrastructures into your home at jennahermans.com/downloads. And then I also have been doing workshops and talks recently as well for both the private and professional sectors going into businesses, running workshops, as well as talks around calm in business, calm for going back into the in-person workplace, which so many companies are doing now, and, and started in the fall.

And as well as calm in terms of how do you take care of you and so that you can own your day better, right? How do you use the five pillars of calm, which I talk about in the book, and then the five brilliant basics of self-care to support being a high performer in business and in life as well, right, by using these simple steps. And then I also do this in the private sector as well, going to different retreats and centers and yoga studios and whatnot, doing talks and workshops there as well. Again, all around the concept of calm.

[00:22:13] Dawn Calvinisti: And tell us a little bit more about what your book is about as well.

[00:22:18] Jenna Hermans: Sure. So the five pillars are of calm, are efficiency, habits, community, communication, and self-care. And in each of those pillars, which also serve as the five chapters of the book I go into, why are these important for calm? How can you, in your personal life, right? Because not everyone needs to do things the same way, 'cause we're all unique human beings.

But how can you find your own systems within each of those pillars to support you and your calm and in a, in doable, actionable ways from simple tips and tricks that are, you know, you can feel them and see them in, implement them straight away to also mindset shifts. On how do you get your mind set up and primed for your calm and to support you in the day to day, the week to week, month to month.

And it all cascades and and ripples out with each pillar out to the other pillars and out to the grander life. It doesn't end up just you being calm, but your home being calm and your community. You notice that the ripples of calm go beyond yourself.

[00:23:20] Dawn Calvinisti: Wow, Jenna, that's a lot that you have to offer and I'm gonna make sure I put it all in the show notes. So if you're looking for her free downloads or you want to figure out where her book is, I'll put all of that there. And Jenna, if people wanna connect with you right now, what's the easiest space to find you?

[00:23:36] Jenna Hermans: You can go to my website, jennahermans.com. There are all the ways to connect with me there as well as on Instagram, Jenna z Hermans, and LinkedIn as well Jenna Hermans.

[00:23:47] Dawn Calvinisti: Thank you so much. I so appreciate what you had to offer today. Especially like I said, at this time of year, I think people are, you know, desperately wanting a calm and enjoyable end of year, and sometimes we just work against ourselves. And so to have some of these tips and ways that we can start looking at it, that it's okay, it's okay to feel calm through this season.

[00:24:07] Jenna Hermans: Mm. Thank you so much, Dawn. Yes, this season, the holiday season is one that gets everyone every time, right? So to have some tools to go into it with, to make sure that you can own your own calm through the experience is invaluable.

[00:24:23] Dawn Calvinisti: I. Absolutely. And so make sure that you reach out, that you get into Jenna's community. That is, to me, the best thing about podcasts is that you get a taste of what everybody's like, and you also get to try out some of the things that they're offering. So make sure that you connect with Jenna. Thanks again, Jenna, for being here.

[00:24:39] Jenna Hermans: Thank you, Dawn, for having me. 

Dawn Calvinisti: Thanks for listening to today's show. If you found value in what you heard, please share it with a friend and rate and review us on whatever platform you listen on. It really helps get us out to other women who could benefit from listening. 

Check out our show notes for details from the show and to connect with me or our guests. Want to continue the conversation? My website is www.pursueprogress.com or DM me @pursueprogresswithdawn on Instagram. 

Until next week, pursue progress no matter how imperfectly.

Links from this episode:

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CONNECT WITH JENNA:

Website: https://www.jennahermans.com 

Website: https://www.bcrgs.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ jennazhermans

Free Calm Worksheets & Downloadables: https://jennahermans.com/downloads

OTHER RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS PODCAST:

Umbrella Virtual Solutions: https://www.umbrellavs.com

Book Your Free 30 Minute Strategy Call with the host, Dawn Calvinisti: https://link.theviphub.ca/widget/bookings/dawncalvinisti/highvaluestrategy