“I think what happens is that we walk around not feeling good inside of our own skin, and part of that is because we've forgotten what it looks like to connect with ourselves before giving to other people all the time. So we end up doing that from such a place of depletion.” - Kate Kripke

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Focusing on Wellbeing Through Connection with Kate Kripke

Welcome to Imperfection in Progress, a podcast for ambitious women who are people-pleasers, perfectionists, or procrastinators. Want to feel less stress and more joy in your life? Then this is for you. I’m your host Dawn Calvinisti.

On today’s episode I’m speaking with Kate Kripke, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) and Perinatal Mental Health Counselor (PMH-C) who has worked with individuals and groups in periods of transition and change for more than 20 years. She’s spent the past decade and a half supporting women and families as the Founding Director and Senior Supervising Psychotherapist of the Postpartum Wellness Center of Boulder, an organization she created in 2007. 

Kate is so much fun to talk with. We dig into how women often become doers to the detriment of their own wellbeing and why that is.

We also talk about the struggle to get off the hamster wheel and get uncomfortable with our self-reflection, and feelings of uncertainty or unpredictability.

And I think you’ll love how Kate unpacks the value of community in our mental health and especially around the idea of loneliness.

I absolutely loved chatting with Kate and can’t wait to hear what you take away from this conversation.

Episode Transcript

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

 So, Kate, welcome to the podcast. I am really excited to be able to talk to you today and to share all the wisdom that you have, or at least some of it  with our, with our listeners. Can you tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do? 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Yeah. I'm so happy to be here. I, this is probably having conversations like this, Dawn is one of the things that makes me the most happy.

I love the opportunity to connect with you, and anytime I can talk about maternal mental wellbeing, I'm just gonna go for it. So thank you. Thank you for inviting me on. I am a licensed clinical social worker by training and a really a pretty diehard passionate advocate for maternal mental wellbeing.

And the interesting piece around that is it's sort of like, yeah, I really feel passionate about moms feeling healthy and happy and well and fulfilled, but those moms aren't the only people I'm thinking about. Right? Because the reality is that truly, truly, as a mom of two teens, I, I, I know. Painfully personally as well, as well as doing this maternal mental health work for 20 years.

But when moms feel good, their kids get more of what they need from them , right? So that when moms feel good, kids feel good. And so when we can really help moms turn that spotlight back on themselves and really focus in on. Themselves for once after all this time pouring into their kids, everybody benefits.

So that's really a focus of my work. I started a early maternal mental health center here in Boulder, Colorado, where we support that sort of pregnancy through postpartum, early maternal and early family mental health work. But as of last year or so, I've been taking all of that knowledge and expertise and interest and skill into the larger space so that I can speak more about these really important topics.

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

And that's so important that not to stay in the small venue. Yes. I love that you're expanding and that you're bringing it to a bigger platform because it affects everyone. It affects families, affects the grandparents, it affects the partners, it affects everybody. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Everybody. And I think something interesting happens, and I'm a huge, I mean, I'm a psychotherapist by training. I believe deeply in good psychotherapy and good trauma work and all that, and there becomes a time, once we've given ourselves permission to feel everything that we're feeling and talk about things that are hard and not feel like we have to like stuff that in a box and pretend it's not happening, right?

Once we're given space to really acknowledge the validity of those experiences, we need to understand where our control is and where our choices, and that there's actually lots of opportunity for us to shift what our lives look and feel like and not to make it if only my baby slept sleeps, I'm gonna feel better, right?

Or if only my teenager starts, you know, stops, whatever, I'm gonna feel better. But really to understand that, oh, we get to choose. And so I think there's a way in which the work goes beyond that  metaphoric, four walls of a therapy office and it's ah, let's empower each other to actually feel good in service of our families.

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

And I think we've come a long way from the days where it's a duty. You're, you just have to do the thing. This is your role and that's it. And too bad for you, like you've chosen to have kids, this is now your life. And I think that's an important thing to understand.

At this point, we're bridging some generations too. Maybe a generation that that was their life and only now it's maybe seeing, hey, that could have been different. And then a generation that is understanding like, I want more than the role. And at the same time, I wanna be healthy in the role. So it's different.

[KATE KRIPKE]

It is. Although we are an interesting, this isn't interesting to your point, generation around that, because I think we have mothers who are now getting curious about the stereotypes and, loud or quiet messaging around you chose to have kids, now your job is to take care of those kids. And so we have this generation of women who are feeling that there's something more to this, but they're still caught in some of the stereotypes and some of the subtle beliefs around what good mothering looks like. And so they want it to be different and they want to feel different, but they don't know how. And so hopefully by the time our daughters grow into mothers, it will be even easier for them. But it's, I think you're right. We're in this weird we're sort of shifting things, but we haven't necessarily figured out how to access that.

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[DAWN CALVINISTI]

And you know, my, my people, my crowd that I tend to attract are what I call the three Ps. So they're the people pleasers, the perfectionists and the procrastinators. And I see this all the time because there's that, I should be all of these things. And I need to live up to the stereotype of being like a great mom. The does all the things, shows up at all the events takes care of everybody. And I'm the last on my list if I'm on my list at all. So I still definitely see that.

[KATE KRIPKE]

You know what's so interesting? I'd be curious to dive into the procrastinators. I wanna hear more about that with your three Ps and how that fits in. But when I think about the, and I believe it does, I just haven't wrapped my head around that. But with the first two, this is like, I would say, you know, I'm 50, I've got two teenage daughters. I call myself often, I'm sure you know this term, like a recovering perfectionist, right? I've struggled with my anxiety my entire life until quite recently in adulthood, and the irony of this is that pleasers want the people there in relationship to feel good around them, right? They want those people to feel good, and perfectionists want to feel. Competent and good at what they're doing. It's all about the feeling, right? And of course, when we do that without including ourself in it, we get farther away from those things. 

And so the irony I think, is that when we really learn to shift the mindset a little bit, like to really be like, okay, why do I, when I'm a people pleaser, what does that actually mean? And when I'm a perfectionist, what does that mean? Oh, the irony is that if we come back to ourselves, We're gonna get those things , right? People are gonna feel good around us, right? And they're gonna, we're gonna have more effortlessness from a place of  effortlessness. More to give, right? And we're gonna actually feel like we got it covered. 

So it's, I think I just took us in a weird direction, but it's so interesting to think about these, the ways that we show up is pleasers and perfectionists and procrastinators and how we're just, we can have what we want. We're just putting our energy in the wrong place. 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

Yes, exactly. And I think it's interesting too when you're talking about like maternal care as far as mental health and all of that end of things too, really, it starts with recognition of, of us. What our needs are, what's uncomfortable, what's not feeling good, what maybe we don't even really understand, but just something's not right. And that takes a lot of reflection. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

A hundred percent. And I think reflection, self-awareness, reflection, curiosity requires a willingness to be uncomfortable.  And many of us were people pleasers and perfectionists and procrastinators. Really don't wanna feel uncomfortable. So we're doing these things, we're acting in these ways that we think are gonna help us not feel that discomfort. It's ironic, isn't it? 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

It is. The, I think the more that we keep busy, you know, stay in the roles, keep doing the thing. Stay on the hamster wheel, I usually say, yes, the further we get from all those pieces that we want. The slowing of the mind, the lack of overwhelm, the less stress the feeling at ease. And yet we're so uncomfortable to climb off the hamster wheel. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

That's right. Because let's be clear, it's the uncertainty is scary, right? I mean that, I think that's where so many of us get stuck, right? It's like, ugh, I can't tolerate uncertainty and unpredictability and so I'm in a fine ways to behave in the world. That I feel like protects me from unpredictability and uncertainty, and yet you and I both know there is no life without unpredictability and uncertainty. We keep, we keep going and we don't get there, and we keep going and we don't get there.

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Now, back to our episode.

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

What do you see when you're working with women and in general out there, what are some of the things that you see that the struggles are and maybe areas that, that need to be looked at that we should be reflecting on? To have that life that's wanted. Yes. Like where's the struggle or the disconnect. Yes. It doesn't allow for it. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Yes. Beautiful. So obviously what I'm about to say is, is are huge generalizations. But I do think there is a way in which many, many, many women get raised in families or societies or cultures, where as women, we believe that our worthiness comes from providing important things for other people, right?

Our worthiness comes from what we have done to take care of people and things. Does that make sense? It's sort of, and it's interesting because whether someone's a mother of a child or not, it's sort of a maternal nature, right? To be nurturing, to be caring. And so I think what happens is that we get, we get talked in somehow to believing that that's about performance, right?

It comes from doing versus being, and so there's this sort of trap we get in, isn't there where we lose ourselves in that process, right? Whether it's at work or as a mother or as a partner we can tend to lose ourselves in the process of being caring and doing for others, and that's lonely. I think many, many women, especially those who tend towards those three Ps you talked about, feel pretty lonely a lot of the time.

They often feel we, when we're in that position, we feel unseen, we feel undervalued,  we feel disrespected, right? In many ways it's because we've been willing to take ourselves out of the picture in order to do that, right? And so I think I, that's a long way of saying, I think what happens is that we walk around not feeling good inside of our own skin, and part of that is because we've forgotten what it looks like to connect with ourselves before giving to other people all the time, right? So we end up doing that from such a place of depletion. We're exhausted and we're frustrated and we're right. Do you know what I mean? 

And so, and so I think what I talk about so often in my work, Dawn, is that. Yes. We want to feel good, right? We wanna feel joyful. We wanna feel grounded. We wanna feel love it, loved and loving. We wanna feel successful. We want all these things we want to feel. But in order to access that experience, we have to be willing to feel the uncomfortable emotions and feelings because they are our guidance system. When I'm feeling lonely or I'm feeling frustrated, or I'm feeling disappointed, if I skip over that by doing, oh, I don't wanna feel that I'm gonna do more. I miss that there's a whole lot of wisdom in that feeling that's telling me where I've gotten off track with how I'm thinking or the choices I'm making. So if we give ourselves permission to feel that loneliness or that discomfort with so much compassion and sometimes support and tenderness, then we can say, oh, that feeling is telling me that I need in, want more, whatever, time, space, safer relationships, right? Whatever that thing is, and then we can access it. Man, we get in our own way sometimes.

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

And I think sometimes that little feeling of, like I was saying before, be feeling off or just feeling like something's missing it creeps up. Right? And it, it'll come out at an an odd time. There might even be a moment of like quick reflection or recognition. Oh, that, that's that. And then we shove it down or we get busy and, that's right, we go on. And so then of course, again it affects everyone around us and how we respond, what our mood is like, how healthily we're able to engage in conversation and so on. But again, when we just keep pushing it down and not actually taking that time to reflect. That's right. We're never going to make that change. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

That's right. And that really is a perfect example because what we're doing in that moment where we push it down or distract ourselves or dismiss talk ourselves out of it, right, is that we're abandoning ourselves in that moment, right? It's almost like, it's like that, that quintessential idea of, oh, I'm willing to disappoint myself so that I don't disappoint those other people outside of me. And then over time, that is wearing and grating on our psyche. Of course we feel horrible, but you're right, many of us aren't taught to stop and pause and pay attention to those whispers.

And that, of course, where the practice is, and that's where the freedom starts and that's the doorway to feeling better. But many of us aren't taught to do that. And that feels a little scary cuz it's sort of what's gonna come up, right? 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

Yeah. Suddenly having to look at all that  be better, just avoid, 

[KATE KRIPKE]

and then that's the hamster wheel, right? Because then we are in a life that doesn't feel good to us and we wonder why. 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

And there's where the procrastination comes up that I mentioned. Ah, so let's not actually go there. Let's stay in the overwhelm. Let's stay in the overthinking, because if I come out of that, I have to make, I have to take actual action that moves me forward. And that's scary. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Oh, that's, so I will procrastinate Powerful. I love hearing that. I talk so much in my work. I'm a about personal responsibility, right? I think many of us, it's that a little double-edged sword, like it's my job to take care of everybody else, but everybody else should be doing things to take care of me. And of course, no one's gonna do it for us. And I think that's, can feel like a burden. Like, oh, I ca I have to stop blaming the partner or the kids, or the job or the environment or politics or the world, or whatever it is, because I have no control over that stuff. That can feel like a burden, but it's also like really good news, right?

To be like, oh, oh, I get to choose what thoughts I engage in and what actions I take. And that is actually, again, I'm saying often to people as mothers if your listeners are mothers, we do the hard work now to learn how to tend to ourselves and make sure we're healthy and well, so our kids don't have to do it later. That's good mothering, isn't it? 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

Yeah, exactly. I like  the word freedom because that comes up often. And even on the podcast, it's been coming up often because if we're really taking that time to reflect, if we're willing to go there and be uncomfortable, the freedom on the other side of it, man, and the feeling of just like relief is amazing.

[KATE KRIPKE]

Sets us free. Yeah. I was just talking about this this morning with my husband, because again, I said as we started, I feel better than I ever have in my entire life. And I think part of it is like, oh, you get to earn that when you're in, in your forties and fifties. I'm like I couldn't have seen this when I was in my twenties and thirties. It's like it is that wisdom with age that everyone talks about, right? But it is that freedom of untangling myself with the things that I can't control and coming back to the things that I can, and yeah, that can feel overwhelming when we're really beginning that journey for the first time but it literally sets us free. There's no better feeling the amount of space I have in my life now, the amount of energy I claimed back when I stopped trying to control all the things that I can't control. It's, it's pretty magnificent, right? It feels good. 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

It does, it does. I have a girlfriend, and it's funny because I'm the same age as you, and I'm probably a couple years older, but she's just I think she's turning 30 this year. Yes. And so it makes me laugh because she has come to these realizations with very young children, and yet I had to have teenagers before I came to that realization, and so it doesn't matter your age, like the reality is the work can be done anytime. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

That's right. I love that you're saying that, and I, when I said I've earned it I think what I mean is I think it requires practice it require the wisdom can come at any age, right? But it really requires, from my experience, a willingness to say, to be willing to ask, what part am I playing in the things that aren't working for me? That is a brave question. It's a vulnerable question, and it really does require, I think, going inward and getting quiet and slowing down and practicing discomfort. And for me, the practice has been worth every moment. And I didn't start practicing until probably your friend's age, right? So there you have it. It's the time that goes in to really asking those questions, I think. 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

So if you're younger, Go for it now. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Ah, heck yes. Actually, I would say, the biggest, my, my true love is working with that pregnancy and postpartum stage because I think, really, I think for many women, of course there are plenty of women who decide who choose to or can't have children. So is, this is not specific to mothers, but one thing that does happen when women choose to have children is that we, we become adults like that, right? All of a sudden we are really forced to ask these important questions of ourselves because these little people. And I think it's a really, to your point, it's like, ah, it's never too late and it's never too early to start asking those questions. I'm hopeful that my two teenage daughters are starting to ask those questions of themselves. 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

And that's where that next generation, hopefully comes full circle. And That's right. Is in a different place, much younger. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. One other thing I wanted to ask you about is, where does community fit into this? 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Oh, I love this question. Community to me is inherent in mental wellbeing and I think when we aren't we all need to belong. That is a human need. And I think when we are not a part of communities that we trust and feel safe in. And that's important. Cause I think there can be community that can be problematic, but I'm talking about those communities where we feel like we belong and our whole self is being reflected back to us, right? People love all of our parts. These communities, big or small, it doesn't matter. We are social and emotional beings. And I think if we don't have that experience, We are going to feel really lonely and isolated, and it's almost impossible to feel good. 

Now I'm not talking about extroverts versus introverts, right? I'm just talking about literally being a part of community. Now, the beauty in 2022, 2023 is that we can find community in so many ways because we have this, we have internet, we have all these kinds of things. But I think that's got, this has been really lost during the pandemic cuz those connections have been really problematic in many situations for people and also hard to access. Yeah, I think that mental wellbeing requires safe relationships with ourselves and people around us, so I could go farther, but I think, that's what you're doing in your podcast, right? You're building community. You're building a community of people who feel like they're being seen and can see others and are being held. It's a psychological experience of being held and supported in who we are. So, yeah, community doesn't need to be you're in a room with 30 people. It's an experience of community. 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

So one thing I ask every guest is, what do you relate to personally the most? A people pleaser, a perfectionist, or a procrastinator.

[KATE KRIPKE]

Um, well, it's such an interesting question for me because I could easily say, oh, I can quickly identify all three of those parts in myself, and I am on a pretty regular basis having conversations with those parts of myself so that the people pleaser, perfectionist and, and pro procrastinator don't drive the car. I'm like, oh, I see you. Come on in. You're welcome here. But nope, you're not gonna take charge. To me, perfectionist and people pleaser in my own life are very integrated. I was raised in a family where I think my, my job, so to speak, no one ever said this to me, but was to show up in a certain way so that my parents felt okay. And there's both people pleaser and procrastinator are deeply involved in that. And that's still my struggle. I still really need to work hard about how to how to unhook myself from my co that codependence in relationships, I think myself as a very independent woman, but there is a part of me that still wants someone to feel a certain way about me so that I can feel that way about myself, and that's a practice, an ongoing practice for me.

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

Tell us a little bit about your new book. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Yeah, it's called Reinventing Supermom. The subtitle is Encouragement, Support and Strategies for New Mothers Who Feel Lost. And I think the quick summary of that book is that it's a book really written for that postpartum woman, that postpartum mother the mother, whether it's a an adoptive mother or a birth mother or a non-birth mother who's going through from the day that child is in their arms until that first year after getting to kind of en ingrained in that motherhood journey, it's really meant for that mother. Although I have people reading it who are like, dang it, my kids just went to college and this is helpful for me. But it really is about shaking up that preconceived idea of what a supermom is and who she is and what she does. To shift that definition from being the perfect caretaker of others and children to the caretaker of ourselves, and that from that place we can show up in a nurturing way and not get depleted. So it's really about that, and they're very short, manageable chapters that give moms things to think about and things to practice around that idea.

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

I will put a link to that in the show notes. So whether you are looking for something from that or you have a friend that this would be a great gift for. Yes. You can find it there. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Perfect. And my 13 year old daughter did the cover of that book, so I have a, she illustrated the cover, so I have a, it's sort of a family affair. This book. It was really fun to do. 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

Oh, that is so special. I know that you are giving a freebie to our listeners and it's a free month in the Healthy Mom Membership tell us what that's about. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Yeah, so I really wanted to create a low hanging fruit option for mothers. Women who are mothers. People who are mothers, I should say. So it's so funny, I'm very aware that sometimes when people listen to my conversations, they may not be a mother of a child. And I really do feel like it's important for all of us to tap into that maternal nature and I and so it really, anyone could join us that wanted to, but it's called the  Healthy Mom Membership and it was a low hanging fruit way to really invite people in who are ready to start taking control of their health and wellness. And I think of mental wellness and mental wellbeing as a bio psychosocial spiritual package, right? We really have all of those things that take part. And so the Healthy Mom Membership, once a month I offer up live, but they're recorded if people can't jump in, conversations with many different kinds of specialists and experts in the field of women's health to talk about and share ideas and answer questions and provide resources.

And this is a really to speak about community. It is a community of women, of mothers who are really wanting to feel good in their lives and wanna be part of a community of other people who are trying to do the same thing, and to get some information and access to some of those things and what it feels like when we begin to dive in. So simple way to get started. 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

Thank you so much for that. That will be in the show notes. So take advantage of this from Kate. Kate, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Where can our listeners find you the easiest? 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Yeah, my website, katekripke.com and I'm sure you go, they'll find spelling in your show notes. I also have an Instagram feed at Kate Kripke, where I am really regularly sharing ideas and thoughts around accessing feel good feelings and learning how to sit with the less good feelings in motherhood. And so I invite people to come find me there as well. 

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

I so appreciate the message that you're putting out there and the platform that you're using to get out to more women. I think this is such an important conversation and it needs to be opened up and expressed and normalized and I so love that you're doing this. 

[KATE KRIPKE]

Aw, thank you. And thanks again for inviting me. This is like my jam having these conversations. So thanks to you, Dawn, really appreciate it.

[DAWN CALVINISTI]

Thanks for listening to today's show. If you found value in what you heard, please share it with a friend and rate and review us on whatever platform you listen on. It really helps get us out to other women who could benefit from listening. 

Check out our show notes for details from the show and to connect with me or our guests. Want to continue the conversation? My website is www.pursueprogress.com or DM me @pursueprogresswithdawn on Instagram. 

Until next week, pursue progress no matter how imperfectly.

Links from this episode:

CONNECT WITH DAWN:

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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pursueprogresswithdawn.com

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CONNECT WITH KATE:

Website: https://www.katekripke.com 

Postpartum Wellness Center: https://www.pwcboulder.com 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katekripke

Book - Reinventing Supermom: Encouragement, Support and Strategies for New Mothers Who Feel Lost: https://www.katekripke.com/book

Freebie FREE month in the healthy mom membership

Link to Freebie https://www.katekripke.com/membership